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Transcript: Witches' Symposium 10： Chris Bennett (Liber 420, Cannabis： Lost Sacrement of the Ancient World)
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Hello beautiful people and welcome to the witches Symposium I'm your Hostess Snappy and I'm joined by my co-hosts Dion and Gunk retch today we have a very special guest with us we have with us today Chris Bennett renowned cannabis activist historian author and researcher how are you Chris I'm doing well thank you very much Snappy how about yourself fantastic we're so excited to have you here today because like we were just talking beforehand and we kind of share the same sort of goals in a lot of this and um we're really trying to on our Channel
Explore in theogens and promote uh the use of enthiogens in their place back within spirituality and in in human culture you know and that seems to be like a massive theme from throughout your career so do you want to introduce yourself and tell us about how you got into cannabis research and whatnot sure sure I got into cannabis research in 1990 I was living out in ukulele on Vancouver Island there on the whole clock would sound uh controversy was going on and I found out about
Industrial hemp and started reading about cannabis and I had this really powerful spiritual experience under the influence of cannabis one night and I was trying to understand that and I thought well if there was anything to that then other people uh will have uh uh um had something similar you know what I mean so I started collecting everything I found on cannabis religion while promoting the industrial uses of uh hip uh um you know to save the forest and that sort of thing you know and producing hemp seed food products I had
A business moment because hemp seed treats in the 90s I sold those all over North America and uh um just kind of kept researching it and this led to five books that I've written now over that 30 odd year span yeah it's incredible like we have your your Amazon page here I highly recommend everyone go check out Chris's books you know because you're writing on your cannabis is sort of your focus but as we said a lot of these are just incredible histories you know you have cannabis in the Soma solution where you dig into The Vedas and you talk about all of this
Mystery behind Soma and you put forward cannabis we have the book we're going to be talking about today cannabis in the Lost sacrament of the ancient world which you just released an updated version on um May 15th and we're going to be seeing a hard cover coming out soon and another book which one which is a real pleasure for me is uh Libre 420 where you dig into cannabis and it's used throughout the occult and magical history of the western world you know so you have quite the diverse writing
Background on this subject and how it relates to spirituality and religion you know like one of the nice things about studying cannabis is there's like some really great archaeological evidence and the name cannabis the root word goes back to like the oldest uh sort of language Roots proto-indo-european count UPS the root word for cannabis and it's you know so you can kind of trace the language references as well in ancient texts and things like that a lot of uh I it's been identified in a number of different
Languages so you're not relying on um speculation as much as say as some of the other antheogenic substances like say when people try to place mushrooms in Christianity or the Old Testament period and that type of thing usually it's based on sort of more interpretive things uh um but here you know we have the Telluride evidence as well as there are other archaeological evidence from the holy land and uh um strong textual indications as well
Right that so let's just jump right into it then because you just released your new book cannabis you know uh lost sacrament of the ancient world and you begin with this research site at Telluride and this is a huge deal because this one of the when was this done like 8th century was when you when the the site was right yeah yeah 8th Century 7th Century BCE uh was when the site was canceled okay that like and that's why it's so well preserved just because it was purposely uh hidden away
They built they'd knocked the altars over they built a floor over top of it immediately and then repurpose the area and so because of that everything was so well preserved right you know what I mean that's that's why there's these residents that they could test on these altars uh um um but uh it's a it's a it's an important timepiece in in in Israeli history uh what what what's associated with that cancelization and this has to do with uh monotheistic uh they call them reforms monotheistic
Reforms reform is actually not the proper term uh because they're not going back to something old or monotheism this time in ancient Israel was that was a Innovation uh not a return to a more a previous uh state that they'd derive from you know archaeological evidence is pretty clear from the holy land that throughout that whole period it was polytheistic
Right now that's such an interesting you know it's a very interesting point right because what when I was reading your book um what becomes really evident especially when you start to dig into the ashra and the Kardashian is the parallels to the cultures around it you know there are similar practices that were done by the Canaanites you have similar practices that are done by the Philistines in Syria by the Greeks we have these characters like kaiboli and Addis that are kind of like really prominent all throughout that region so
This incredible kind of washing away of all of those roots is such a huge and huge incredible thing of History like why do you think that is why do you think that happened and when abouts um well in the case of uh of of the Jews which I think later affected you know what started there I think later affected the whole world really you know what I mean um yeah you know there was like a number of things that that drove like uh uh the monotheistic thing you gotta remember
Like how you know people should realize that uh before say 8th Century BCE the archaeological evidence that was that Yahweh had a wife ashra there's a there's textual uh inscriptions that refer to Yahweh and share uh and illustrations of them together and things like that which I reproduce in the book and this is all over the place in in the holy land and outlying areas you know and uh um not just ashra but you know ball was worshiped alongside uh uh Yahweh the biblical God and L the god
Of Canaan and stuff and a lot of this uh um is kind of condensed down into how Yahweh ended up in the monotheistic period right um um and uh um teller ads interesting because it's one of the sites that is uh known for the combined worship of Yahweh and his asherah which is his wife because they found like we know it was like uh uh a holy side of Yahweh because they they found an inscription that said House of Yahweh and the place itself was built on the same style as the temple in Jerusalem as described in the biblical
Text uh but on a smaller scale it's called like a smaller version of the holy of holies in Jerusalem you know and we should probably talk a little bit about this site you know it's a temple site but within this Temple site there's a little room called the holy of holies which is about the size of a brim closet probably four or five feet wide by about eight feet deep and it was probably you know not much more than head height and inside this uh altar room uh there were two altars
Side by side and probably at one time two Standing Stones although only one remained when they reduced discovered the temple but the indications are that virtually too and one of these altars was burned frankincense and one of these other altars was burned uh um cannabis and they know this from the resins that were you know burnt over and over again on there and and were condensed on the uh on the tops of the altars and not just cannabis but cannabis resins so a hashish-like product that had to be
Burnt on manure which was a very common lighting fuel cooking Fuel and stuff back in those days still is used in some areas of the world um and so this was like a little hot box type chamber that you could totally fill with smoke they didn't have pipes there's no archaeological evidence of agent pipes or anything like that from this region uh um pipes are kind of a new world Discovery um and uh um the the common way to do it was was inhalation right and this is uh
Uh what we see also with groups like The scythians Who would burn cannabis on braziers and little tents to hold in the smoke uh um and other cultures that were practicing stuff humiliation with cannabis um and so this site is particularly interesting because not only was it the house of Yahweh and built on the same sort of uh uh um uh sort of like uh design is the temple in Israel but also there was a lot of Ashura figurines discovered in the same same site and so
It's no one uh at this time the time of its uh cancellation uh Hezekiah was going around and destroying ashra temples and other competing temples ball temples killing off the priests and priestesses uh and he also ripped out and these reforms extended into the temple in Jerusalem and he's described as pulling out the ashram the symbol of ashra inside the temple as well as a praise in the serpent which Moses made which the people of Israel uh have been burning incense to so it was destroyed as well
And so incense burning is kind of tied up with these reforms right um and so this is uh um likely was taking place now uh um there's multiple reasons for this but a real big one was that Israel the Kingdom of Israel at this time was being um continually under Threat by much larger kingdoms the Assyrians and the Babylonians you know and these earrings eventually overthrew the Israelites and the baby Rollins eventually over uh through Jerusalem right uh um and um in this situation there you know in the ancient world there's no division
Between politics and religion right you know there's all these polytheistic Cults there's the kingdom and the King you know and the advisors and whichever cult has the year of the king and the advisors that's who's going to have the most power but you know trying to control that when you have different agendas from different uh Cults and they all want things you know um is pretty tough to do I would imagine you know um and I think that monotheism was a way of consolidating worship and control of the people in face of these much larger
Adversaries um and so there may have been some attempt to install uh monotheism but it wasn't ever successfully installed even the time of Hezekiah we see the people return right back to the worship of ashra and by the time of Josiah his uh his son who had similar reforms uh this continues right and in Josiah's case uh they claim to have found uh they were saying they were reconstructing uh the Temple of Solomon now Solomon even in the biblical account is is described as polytheistic and he's condemned for worshiping uh uh uh the the the the the
Goddess on on the in the high places and burning incense to her swayed by his foreign wives right um and so he's a polytheistic type of figure but they say they are re reconstructing the the Temple of Solomon and they knocked the wall over and they found uh the book of Deuteronomy the second book of the law and they open it up and it says all these other temples the ashrath temples all this stuff's got to go it's you know we only practice this way and so another bout of reforms
Uh um begins to take place but then you know not long after this they're uh uh wiped out by the Babylonians and redistributed so monotheism didn't take place then there either um uh um and uh cannabis is kind of wound up with this like uh what's really interesting to me about Telluride is for decades prior to the discovery of this archaeological evidence uh through the etymological and linguistic work of the Anthropologist Sula Bennett I had been following uh the idea that this Hebrew term kind of bossom also sometimes just
Kind of uh which appears uh about five times in the Old Testament Pierce more than that but Sula Bennett focused on these five particular references uh um and it tells a story of a plant that was used in the holy of holies and then eventually became prohibited because of its association with the goddess and people burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and so these two stories really match uh which is which so I'm saying that telerad uh turns the hype the hypothesis that the Hebrew term kind of awesome uh references cannabis into a factual situation and a large part of
The book is trying to match that up and this is something that I looked at earlier I wrote another book in the 2001 and that was sex drugs violence in the Bible and a lot of the uh you know the the the the the the goddess worship Ashera stuff uh the quotation uh um and a lot of these others the fertility rights and stuff like that they were really uh discussed in that book in much more detail but at that time the idea that Yahweh was partnered with a goddess
Was really radical and that was one of the things after a rat and then I realized as I heard about these stories of Iran and people were mostly comparing it to the situation in the temple of Jerusalem and saying this is an indication of Temple worship but then other people were saying oh no this is like actually an example of the sort of heretical worship that Hezekiah was was was canceling out and when you take a look at these Hebrew references to cannabisum what it shows is that both
These parties are correct but we're dealing with different periods in time and in the beginning you know it is initially part of the holy of holies and the temple worship but because of its association with the earlier polytheistic practices and the wife of God ashra it becomes prohibited uh um now you know the prohibition of something like cannabis uh through history that's you know definitely got a lot of effects and repercussions but when you take a look at the suppression of the goddess and especially the culture around the goddess the acceptance of trans people uh um uh the
The kind of motherly love that it puts out focus on that you know in the culture and you take that right out that part right out you focus solely on the patriarchy well you end up with a mess like the mess we're in right now as we sit on the precipice of world
Destruction you know what I mean for sure her that sure is is Mother Earth man 100 the thing one thing that just struck me about what you were saying there is like when I was reading your book and where you're talking about Canon bosem and the Cannabis and you know a lot of this I remember when I was in university a degree in religion studies everyone was talking about calamus and you bring this up but even if it was calamus calamus is in theogenic number one but the biggest striking point to me is that we have all of this representative in
Every other culture surrounding them every other culture has a prominent use of cannabis yeah and has and has a mother goddess called so why would Israel five references to the can of awesome that Sula Bennett points out to it appears alongside frankincense you know just look in that Temple thing and the descriptions of uh of kind of uh they don't just know calamus was a common Marshal this Bros in Israel and uh the references and this is also something they say about the telarad Canada this is it was important and uh
You know in the Ezekiel reference to Ghana it comes in on a caravan uh um and uh I mean the Jeremiah reference he's like what do I care for your Canada from a distant land your intense of Sheba does not please me uh um and so uh is this direct and this is important because uh one of the points I I differentiate uh with Sula vetted on and she thought it was a Semitic term uh uh that made it into uh a western languages and stuff like that but it originated as a Semitic term but uh um myself and Carl
Ruck as well uh holds his view Professor Carl Rock uh um um hold that the the term is an Indo-European term Ghana and then it came in on the trade routes with that name and then was adapted into the Hebrew culture uh with that name and in the same sort of ceremonial context as I mentioned uh Indo-European use uh with the scythians they would use it in funerary rituals they burn in braces catches intense and in Indo-European culture of the indication is that this goes back to 3500 BC in regions like the Ukraine and Romania where there's
Evidence of these sort of funerary rituals with cannabis and it extended widely through Indo-European culture even up into China where indo-europeans were settled in central China the Gucci culture until the Han Chinese the indigenous Chinese chased them out of there about fourth fifth century vce uh something wound up with uh The Disappearance of Helm as well right no no yeah so much craziness going on but um one thing that was really interesting that you were talking about that really connects to what wretch does is you were mentioning how a lot of these rights
They're done within the holy of holies right which is a room that you're going in that's going to be like a sensory deprivation tank almost you know and then their lighting the large amounts of incense so that they're creating like a hot box effect where they would then be hallucinating Visions having these divinatory experiences I don't know like like about full-on hallucinations I don't think that that's necessary necessary but let's take like but yeah depicted in Exodus 30 23 Moses makes
This holy anointing oil with about nine pounds of kind of awesome mixed with myrrh and cinnamon into about a gallon and a half of olive oil and olive oil is a very good carrier for THC and he goes into the tent of the meeting because they're on the road then right you know what I mean they have a movable Temple and the tent of the meeting much like the Sith the intense is literally closed area much like the the Telluride Temple and then he uh covers himself in this royalty and she's fatty soluble as well
As a lot of references of topical cannabis in the agent world as well um and he places some of this oil on the altar of incense and then he speaks to the Lord and the pillar of smoke over the altar of incense the the pillar of smokes actually referred to as the Shekinah later in later Hebrew writings and actually represents the physical cool presence of God in the temple so unless that pillar of smokes there and then Moses you know he focuses on a question what are we going to do what
Are we going to do you know and eventually a voice comes back out of the small this is what you tell the people uh Omni and he goes outside they don't see or hear God he goes outside and this is what the Lord your God says uh um and so we can really see you know cannabis with its uh receptor sites and the areas of higher thinking and memory uh um uh um activating those areas many people uncomfortably start to hear kind of voices and things like that you know get
Overwhelmed with the inner chatter you know many ways is cannabis is a is a door to the the subconscious and the unconscious you know what I mean 100 yeah and so we kind of opens that up you know what I mean and uh uh um this is why I think it plays such an important role it's not just as you were saying not just the Hebrews but zoroastrian references to uh cannabis infused wines we've got a Syrian you know the Syrian references really uh make it clear the temple use it's described as one of the main items for the sacred rights large
Amounts of offerings to the Temple of inanna uh uh um large you know uh references to its use in the direct use in the cult of Ishtar nishara you know uh um so it's like pretty important and I think this is also what led to like in the in the references uh to Kana in Isaiah it's like God's like uh um you know Isaiah shows up like Moses with questions and looking for for some answers and help you know and uh uh God's like you have not read any Canon
Frankincense for me but you've heard me with your sins and iniquities and uh um uh um it's it's because like cannabis there's all these different temples there right and hey the gods respond a lot better when you burn this herb in the temple than when you don't you know um so it's like sought after man it's a commodity you know what I mean like it wasn't even being produced there they don't think it was like a refined resin product imported that came in on these trade routes and helped you to speak to the gods and that's why all these
Different cultures and temples wanted it and so uh this created you know another reason for for monotheism over polytheism is like we've got all these offerings and they're going to all these other guys and that's what we want here at the central Temple at the Kingdom where we can use it you know uh so there's a real desire for control there but there's a better scene in in Isaiah which I tie back to that one um uh by the the similar references to sins and iniquities which appears in both of the passages and in that one it says uh and
The temple was filled with smoke and the seraphim flew onto me with a live colon hands which he had taken with tongs from off the Altar and he laid it upon my lips and low my sins and iniquities were removed um and so here we see the sins iniquities are relieved you know what I mean when he showed up with no cannabis and frankincense it wasn't relieved but here they're in a temple they're burning stuff on the altar we know they burn cannabis on the altar the guy grabs with tongs a burning coal to the altar he
Holds it up to Isaiah's mouth like a bro with a hot notch and he takes a big hit and boom Shiva just like a sadio sins and iniquities are relieved you know so this is like a a Paramount power to the say the the Christian Sacrament you know what I mean this is a substance that releases you of that type of thing just like uh uh um cannabis in in India when you know is better than a thousand horse sacrifices an offering of of cannabis in in some texts you know so uh um you can
Kind of see the similarity uh um and how that connects right oh sure similarity there right but yeah go ahead so we have this anointing oil that is used to for forgiveness of sins or atonement which of course brings to mind Jesus as the Christ with the chrism oil and he provides forgiveness as well and uh and as in Exodus 30 this is all tied to the scapegoat isn't it or is that another chapter actually I don't know if it's tied to the Exodus I don't think it's in there but that all
Kind of starts to occur but you know the the Hebrew term uh Messiah that means the anointed one and the Greek translation of that's Christ I didn't want to go into like uh uh you know I have written about uh the the continued use of this holy oil into the Christian period I just kind of touched on this book just because it's so complicated talking about Jesus Christ nowadays you know everybody everybody's all goes all Caesar Messiah on you and uh um there's a lot to cover and it was just I figured
It'd be better for another book if I'm going to approach it again rather than sure this one already I really hope you do just because like you know your book you don't really even go there but anyone who's familiar and reads it closely will notice so many parallels between this goddess worship cult that you discussed throughout your book and the later Christian cult you know
That never got fully wiped out yeah absolutely yeah well Sophia you know they've you know people said the wisdom literature thing is kind of carried over from the wisdom literature which has got us influenced in the Hebrew Hebrew material right so yeah it's it's pretty you know I don't think you know the way it came down through Christianity with Mary and stuff that it kind of okay carries the same sort of weight or or influence you know what I mean it's also patriarchal but it's not really the constipation
That happens right but if we look at like a lot of the earliest texts like you're so familiar with the Wretch like a lot of that Gnostic literature seems to be very much related to these these earlier goddess cultures absolutely you know like the other the Thunder of the perfect mind is a great text I am the [\\h__\\h] and I am the Holy One uh um you know it's like uh um goddess worship Central to gnosticism Mary Magdalene was a premier uh uh a disciple just as you
Know Peter and Paul were in the in mainstream Christianity and there's a whole other type of scenario of you know again of like a polytheistic culture you're suppressing down to monotheistic culture a repeat of what happened you know the Romans were dealing with the Galls and all these different things they got so spread out as an Empire again the centralized warship one religion one worship uh um it's politically motivated in both cases
That's yeah that's such a good point um what I want to ask you go sorry you want to say something rich uh well I just brought to mind that there's also a another supposed wife of God anata Yahoo and we can read in the ugaritic text that the goddess are not uh uses an ointment ritually and seems to be tripping out there or you know in some kind of ecstatic State and so it's all over the place and and then uh the gnostics are using these sexual rituals
That are more than likely rooted in the Ashira or kadesha sacred prostitution Cults of Judaism or at least take some info you know they're they're drawing from all over the place you know that that it was like in a lot of ways if you take a look at Gnostic Christianity it's returned to the early polytheistic kind of Pantheon
Um you know the circle you know yahweh's the bad guy in in that scenario and the serpents the The Giver of wisdom and uh uh the goddess is you know his mother and uh um you know it's all it's all pretty much back to the old ways and I I agree I think that you know even the earliest uh Gnostic sex I'm able to use terms like the Levites and the ophites you know those are the oldest Gnostic texts and that's where a lot of the sexual
Practice you know you can read whole books by Elaine pagels and other Gnostic Scholars and he'd never know that they were these like erotic uh practicing Gnostic groups you have to kind of dig a little bit deeper uh um to go either go back to the original text and uh uh the condemnations of these groups by the the Catholic Church fathers or uh maybe read some German you know researchers like uh uh Kurt Rudolph who'd go more into more detail about spermo gnosticism you know it's like uh um and there's even texts
Where Jesus is depicted like the question of Mary uh where Jesus is himself is depicted is partaking in these uh not erotic Gnostic uh sperm rights oh this is what we've actually talked about here on on our show Dion and I did an episode on spermatophagi more dealing with more modern interpretations that were coming out of a lot of this French martinist schools based on the Gnostic stuff you know of course you know uh um and and you know when I first heard about it I was like no way you know what
I mean and then eventually you get to the text and it's like oh whoa and once you read those the condemnations it opens up a lot of uh uh uh Avenues of interpretation of Gnostic text themselves and you can kind of see they're making reference to it they're talking more esoterically like these are their secret rights you know what I mean uh they're talking more esoterically but it's pretty pretty clearly intertwined this is something I dealt with a lot in my book sex drugs violence in the Bible
I I had a lot of material on you know at that time I think it was the most in-depth look at the different material relating to that uh in print but I I think uh Tobias churtings now has a book out on Gnostic sex rights I've only looked at the table of contents but it looks like he's covered the material uh uh pretty well I don't know what his end interpretation of it is uh um but yeah it's it's pretty wild stuff you know like few people realize like for the first few centuries there was like
Full-on sex Cults uh that consider themselves Christians you know what I mean it comes a real shock to Modern Christians I think go ahead sir rich I was just going to say uh the main argument that Scholars seem to have against that is just well they ancients would never do this stuff because it's so unseemly and we wouldn't do it so they wouldn't do it well you know people say oh it's all metaphorical you know like and it's like it's like you can see this thing in other cultures a lot of the stuff
Similar to Tantric practices uh um uh you know there's there's a lot to it man and some of these you know the bridal chamber all the all this type of stuff it's pretty clearly uh wound up with with sex rights well one of our good friends here um Dr Ammon who I know you've cited his work um I I know him personally like I've met him in real life I brought him to Vancouver to speak at a conference he was David Hillman back then uh um and uh
Um he's in some he's in my documentary on kind of awesome and some of my other documentaries amazing yeah so and you got to check out his latest stuff because he's mostly been doing it all through lectures on YouTube he wants to give it away for free for everyone but he's basically utilizing his discovery of this orphic Vox which is like this secretive um cult language of Dionysus and using that to interpret a lot of these uh texts specifically a lot of Christian texts like the Book of Revelation but what he's looking for and is showing is like this these sex rights that were
Perpetuated from the ancient Bronze Age forward you know and they involve either the consumption of semen or the consumption of a female ejaculate yeah you need some kind of two versions of this right going in either direction have you come across anything like that what do you think of something what I mean it's like an extra fluid are described at that time they thought uh uh doing it well you know I think there's indications of these practices in the fertility rights you know what I mean but nothing that that's concretely
As descriptive as say as the church father's descriptions of the gnostics and the uh what they were doing or hippolytus or some of these other guys that wrote about it uh um you know they're pretty clear on what was going on and uh um uh you know there there's definitely like other cultures there's indications of practices like this in Egypt you know and that's all this stuff you know gnosticism was kind of like what the new age is now uh uh back then where it was adapting just everything
Break Egyptian any Babylonian whatever they could get could could be incorporated into to the cosmology and when we talk about the term you know gnosticism it's important for people to know that this is like a a blanket term not all the gnostics were practicing these sex rights just specific sets sex like the ophites now scenes Levites uh some of these other ones Barbara barbell audience or whatever there's just so many of them I I don't even know all the names uh um but they're you know
Narcissism is kind of a blanket term for anybody that didn't end up in the Roman Catholic Church Canon you know what I mean um we're very aesthetic and you know to completely anti-sex but the sex noise at practice sex a lot of it had to do with the idea that uh um uh um light descends into matter and then through a series of incarnation mineral vegetable animal and then man when it's in man it has the opportunity to return to light but if you procreate and plant your seed and create children you're causing the entrapment of light into matter but if
You retain it all and maybe take some more in you build up a body of light then you ascend through the archons to the Kingdom of Light eventually uh um and so it's kind of wound up with that kind of a belief uh um you know it's a Crowley in Sex Magic it kind of evolves into something like you could throw you could focus your will say there's something you want to accomplish uh and you can focus your will into that and that would drive a message of of something into that right and then if you took it back into yourself and give
Birth in it to yourself and you'd have the will to to complete that act right so it's a little bit different than than what the noise yeah it's interesting though that you bring a Crowley because he also kind of speculated on this ancient right of consumption nation of Menzies in in sperm right
Yeah absolutely well he's you know influenced by those French guys you were talking about um like I'm trying to think of some of their names off my off the top of my head this thing come I think or something one guy yeah yeah uh
Um and uh that was a big thing back then well you know there's also like uh uh uh Von Hammer perkstel's mysterium uh uh baphometis uh which which was written in 1818 and it it put forth and that's where a lot of this Gnostic stuff started to arrive is after uh Von Hammer perchdale's book mysterium baphometis uh um he suggested that the Templar when they were in the holy land they rediscovered these Gnostic rights and that that the the reasons for the accusations of sodomy and stuff like
That against the Templar and the the source of their uh heresy accusations was their adoption of these Gnostic texts and that baphometis itself was uh uh um a dark form of of Sophia uh um and uh that you can rearrange you know you do some numerological thing and baphometic and it winds up as as Sophia uh um according to Von hammer perkstol and also uh uh the guy uh Professor Hugh sconefield made a similar Claim about the name Baphomet is being connected to uh to is Sophia uh um it's debatable you
Know um but it's interesting well yeah on that of course on that point I I can confirm I know how they do it it's called the at-bash cipher so what you do is you you take the uh first letter of the alphabet in this case uh aleph and then you whenever you see that you replace it with the last letter of the alphabet and the second letter Beth with the SEC and last letter okay so if you do that for for Baphomet it does transliterate to uh to Sophia
There's no you can you can do this yourself at home if you just look at the alphabet so uh there's no you know it definitely says that whether or not that's what the secret Mysteries are about whether that that's that like you know whether that's just by chance or by thing but you know the not the Templars are another fascinating things you know the the whole kathari influence on some of the gnostics and that's like I mean the Templar and that's again kind of like a carryover of gnosticism and uh um
Interesting you know in in Libra 420 I show that uh uh the Templar had cannabis being grown for them by Arabs in Spain and it was seized at both the French uh uh uh Templar site and the English Templar side as well when they were rated right there's so much interesting stuff too that a lot of people forget about the Islamic tradition because I know I've read a lot of this scholar Elaine danalu who talks about how the super tradition one of my favorite guys yeah
You know I die on his book on Dionysus that's great stuff man right and he talks about this a lot how basically the Sufi uh groups are are can a re or an offshoot of these dionysian ecstatic Cults they're doing the same dances they're playing the exact same music you know almost verbatim and they have the Cannabis and hashish rights as well as sacred wine you know which is and the wine one is the interesting one because cannabis we know was generally accepted among the Muslims until later but the wine was always vilified yet the sufis
Maintained it you know it's kind of like tantric almost and you know like a breaking cultural taboos you know right it's part of the well you know the sufis like they would travel around with bands of savoos and you know they they are they were like oh I'll interwound up there's even the agent depictions of them all together Saturdays Packers all mixed together you know taking hash drinking wine whatever and the connection between Dionysus and Shiva as well is you know that as you mentioned Dana Lowe he he wrote about that I don't
Know if he was the first to write about it in a book but there's a few books on that and this goes back to you know the time of Alexander man they thought then it was already much more agent than their time period uh when they were talking about it so it's pretty interwound and you know you got to think like um it's not surprising that there'd be like similarities like that that some of these different religions could have started from something earlier we see this with you know Solomon heoma
Specifically uh in the avesta tayoma and there's a whole mythology in the rig vetted salmon that's all mythology but there's overlaps of like same Gods appearing and some of the same myths you know but there's also differences right you know what I mean and it's like take a look at language right you know what I mean like you know French English German uh uh uh Vedic Indian they all started as Indo-European language and people moved to different areas and then it took on its dial uh you know different dialects
And that doesn't take that long you know what I mean before people living over here that separated from the same group they can't understand each other four or five centuries later you know what I mean uh same thing goddesses you know they take their God over there but things happen and all this add that to this myth and adapt that for this you know and and pretty soon there's similarities and differences but you can kind of see enough similarities to identify uh that this originates with something earlier you know I think this is pretty uh clear with goddesses like
Ishtar is Shara ashara uh that that they all go back to something much much much more agent and the common use of cannabis uh uh in all of these Cults is is pretty indicative of of the extent and how far back that goes you know what I mean it was something that was in the original that split off you know right for sure like the goddess imagery is something that is so primordial it even predates like modern hominids you know in that area like there's there's those
Venus figurines everywhere you know and I mean a lot of that we're dealing with speculation but I think it's important that we recognize this kind of image that survives right that mother goddess image evolves art that's appearing for like thousands of years you know what I mean it's pretty exactly it's a central form of worship you know the worship is Sybil man that's just like so Agent Man you know uh um eight ten thousand years cattle High OCT type stuff and they found evidence of cannabis there as well
You know right oh did they okay a cannabis cloth not not like uh oh right individual use of cannabis but uh they found and which is interesting because it's like eight ten eight ten thousand years old kind of that range and we find Cannabis cloth in Taiwan around the same time 10 000 BC so these diverse cultures are already utilizing this plant in similar Ways by this time which indicates it's like just so much much more agent you know yeah it's so ubiquitous and then we can see that there's pretty clearly Canaanite
Egyptian and zoroastrian influences on Judaism and they all seem to have been using cannabis so of course Jews did you know it's everywhere else how could they escape it Syrian stuff you know what I mean it's almost like yeah a similar type when you read like the description of the Sacred rites and uh uh and then compare that with the Exodus kind of account and uh the indications are that it was kind of just an extension of that same sort of worship in Israel until monotheism uh became the the flavor of the day you know
Yeah there's one thing I wanted to ask you a little more about actually because this monotheism thing is so interesting and you brought up like it's kind of a process of of that happens over time but I have read a lot of Scholars that argue that after The Exodus into Babylon that when they return that's really when the monotheism takes root and a lot of this was instilled by the Persians as it to create a buffer state to protect themselves from Egyptians what was the temp set in stealing monotheism but it never really
Put root um uh um and I this is something I discuss in relation to Ezra and his cup of fire it's like similar to the zoroastrian accounts of people drinking these uh bong infused wines you know um and uh um it's like uh uh it was very successful in Zoroastrianism with another situation of where like kind of polytheistic and comes down to a sort of a monotheism although I don't you know people say he was a monotheism but it's not exactly a monotheism but close enough it's got the one Central God
There Uhura master that it was kind of in Domination um and uh I I think you know the idea is is that that became so successful that they copied that in different territories you know and over here maybe Marduk is used uh over here in this area with these Hebrew guys is Yahweh um and that you know when Ezra is described as going back to the Holy Land he was ascribed you know to to the Persians uh when they send them back it's like the people there they don't
Know anything about monotheism they're like worshiping polytheistic just as it was done before they it was all split up and uh he had to instill it and separate them from their foreign wives and and things like that but there's no evidence that there was monotheism ever there before before the time of you know the Persian return and and that could well again have been you know more political influences uh uh um getting down to that so I see the uh Hezekiah and Josiah attempts historical
Attempts at doing it and then zoroastrian you know and I think from there you know it just people started kind of paying more attention to that model and eventually you know through Christianity Roman Empire or whatnot again boom monotheism and uh here we are
Okay we seem to have like there's several attempts at monotheism that happen right you can also talk about like the cult of Akhenaten in Egypt right and then we could also even my book sex drugs violence in the Bible I was really into the Akhenaten uh uh theory that Sigmund Freud he's the one that came up with the idea that uh Moses is monotheism he's got a book I think it's Moses and monotheism for it and he suggested that akhenat it was where where it got picked up and we know that Akhenaten had semites in his in his
Kingdom and sometimes in uh um Authority tariff roles and you know like uh in the structure of the society in important uh responsibility uh positions uh um so there's no doubt and we also you know things like they found like uh temples relating to enki where this is a big influence on the whole uh Garden of Eden mythology in in in in in our another city of Akhenaten so there's all the elements are there and they're you know I I'm not sure I believe in a historical
Moses myself I think that you know it's a creation of uh Hezekiah Josiah period there's no you know indications the Hebrews had any knowledge of the laws of Moses up until after the time of Josiah when they found the book of Deuteronomy and stuff you know but there may have been you know maybe there was some influence of that maybe it carried over uh um but uh in my first book I definitely considered Moses a historical figure and treated a lot of it quite literally uh but I kind of think as you
Were saying a lot of it's later with the Persians and stuff like that and you can't really it might be like a composite figure uh created out of a variety of of group leaders and stuff yeah it seems to be like a pattern because then we also have the other place that I see the monotheism coming from is coming from the Greek philosophy specifically platonism you know which is arguing uh for that Noble lie in this kind of setting up of a rigid patriarchal hierarchy and you know it
Kind of sets up this what we see later with the Christian with the Christians this idea of us against them in that Perpetual Warfare and this idea that we have to dominate everyone around us and create a global kind of government you know like um so there's a lot of where this it's hard to say exactly but you see all of these elements there's definitely something coming from Egypt from from Persian and coming from the Greeks and Romans as well right absolutely yeah all sorts of else
Everybody come into contact with you know what's like it's a it's a terrifying Prospect you know and and like and you were you were right to identify it like this loss of the Cannabis and this loss of the feminine caused so much violence across the world right absolutely unbalanced Society you know like where we're like it's it's all male dominated and it's not working right
But um I wanted to open up the questions to uh to Dion you have yet to talk about anything do you have anything you want to ask of Chris oh well I got a series of questions and uh we'll see which one you find the most interesting sure number one is is there a relationship male and female which means breaking sense in cannabis I I don't I never explored anything like that I'm assuming the frankincense was burnt to uh Yahweh and the Cannabis was burnt to ashra because of uh By the time
Of Jeremiah 6 20 although cannabis had been initially praised in part of the the temple use and whatnot by the time Jeremiah 6 20 he's like what do I care from here Canada from a distant land your uh incense of Shiva does not please me uh uh or you're kind of Anne frankincense from a different one this is one of the references where both of those appear together and specifically at the time where the cancellation of of the temples happening with the Cannabis and frankincense temples right
Um and uh then in Jeremiah 44 he's in uh uh conflict with uh Israelites who had escaped to Egypt and were settled there this is all during the Babylonian attack and the you know crushing of Jerusalem and stuff like that and he blames them for the fall of Jerusalem because they were burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings tour and this whole burning incident and you continue to burn incense to the Queen of Heaven on their crowd responds sure we burned in says to the Queen of Heaven as did the Kings and princes
Before us and our fathers and mothers you know as we always have done you know uh um and so it's pretty clearly wound up with that right so in that sense that's where I'm really tying it in with with the cult of Ashura is that reference there and then the same indication uh in in the temple of right and also there's an archaeological site that's related to ashra where there's indications of ritual production of ham cloth and this is something that's made reference to in the uh the the women
Wove clothing for ashra in in the temple grounds and stuff like that which is indicative of again of a plant with both fibers and uh entheogenic properties so in that sense I think there is something there but like on a more physical or scientific or uh other esoteric system basis no I haven't but cannabis is definitely a female energy because we're taking the female plant specifically right right it's a sexed plant right there's not that many plants that are male and female and cannabis is one of those
Awesome and and so I got another question um July 23rd today I noticed I was looking into um dogon culture because I I tried to go to Mali and I was going to the dogon sacred sites in Africa whoa and they considered today that there's an alignment with Sirius the Sun and the Earth which is a straight line with the universe
Um and that's the dog star is connected to cannabis whole thing the idea to dog star cannabis that's just [\\h__\\h] [\\h__\\h] this is etymology it's like you know Jack Herer is a Pioneer and I knew him and uh he wrote the forward for my first book but sometimes he just you know came up with some crazy okay you won't find a single serious
Etymologist or linguist that chases the etymology to two dog star for cannabises they they there's like so much knowing about the etymology of chemicals even the page on Wiki is actually pretty good if you look at that uh they have a page on the etymology of cannabis but it clearly goes back to proto-indo-european Indo-European roots and you can follow the spread of the term spreading out into different languages you know in Europe and then in the East and stuff like that uh um pretty clearly you know
Uh um so I don't hold any weight into that and I've tried to find you know actual references to the dogons use of cannabis and how it fits in but it's hard to find anything from like an actual Anthropologist or uh anything like that I've been unable to and you know it's something I'm always looking at uh uh cannabis references and digging up stuff and uh um I couldn't find a lot to substantiate that uh that no I'm not saying there isn't uh uh uh that but I
Haven't been able to find anything from you know a serious researcher that's you know not somebody that's like some Pro cannabis activist or you know what I mean somebody like myself or something uh
That you can do it and that's like something I'm always like looking for is like you know actual archaeological talking about it or actually historians or anthropologists and uh um not people that are going to have some sort of bias interpretation you know awesome awesome because I've heard that for years that mythology this books and everything about it you know and so one last question can a as a measuring Rod um you know I saw the reference that and then cheshot the goddess in Egypt with their hemp ropes to measure yeah yeah
During the time is there something there yeah there there could be you know what I mean I didn't go into it in this book but I have gone into it earlier it's not just the measuring route a lot of times it's like a a road right you know what I mean yeah a bundle of rope because you could measure longer lengths with a bundle of rope if you follow the measure of the rod down down that way I think there is a connection there you know
What I mean these are important symbols and stuff uh um uh you know there's just so much to cover that anytime I talk about something like that I've got to like lay out all this stuff to kind of make it sort of you know and I just was trying to like keep the book my publisher wanted me to write something like 300 Pages you know because Libra 420 with 777 Pages people barely read little books now let alone big thick books uh um and my my publisher
Was hoping for something a little more mainstream so I didn't into some detail and that's something that I left out of this book that I kind of thought maybe I should have mentioned that but it would have taken a lot of illustrations and uh uh uh what not to do it but I do I do discuss that in sex drugs violence in the Bible I just want to say like I love that you went all out with 420 like that's one of my all-time favorite occult books ever
Just because unlike a lot of occult books you're citing all of your sources and you're putting them in context and it's in ridiculous the amount of sources you you it's like a literal Bible you go through everything yeah you know when I started that book I thought I would just be you know I thought maybe I'd be able to get a chapter or two on the Medieval Renaissance material and then a whole Focus would be the 19th century but then when I wrote it I just came across all
This medieval and Renaissance material how chemical texts and Latin with cannabis references and grimoires and Latin with cameras that nobody had written about before uh um and it took up most of the book and then unfortunately I I had a load of 19th century material that got left out on the back burner I had a huge chapter on Crowley and hashish that never made it into the book that I uh probably published at some point somewhere uh in something else but there's like in the 19th century there like uh uh um elifus
Levi Pappas uh um so many of these guys will have asked me so many of these people have little cannabis connections and stuff there's like you could write a whole book on drugs in the 19th century I don't think there would be a 19th century called a revolution without hashish and and Other Drugs but particularly hashish's influence you know yeah no definitely right like the influence of cannabis cannot be understated one one reference from 420 that immediately stood out to me was uh the the connection to Robin Goodfellow
And the whole myth that whole mythology of like um Robin Hood like I never realized that that had all of that ancient Pagan and cannabis connection just something I just for granted oh poems and stuff like that you know or uh on the kind of raunchy kind of sexy poems with hemp stuff in it uh yeah no that's fascinating stuff Shakespeare was aware of that he worked it into uh uh um his big thing with Puck and everybody pucks Robin Goodfellow uh um and uh he even
Has a hemp reference in Midsummer Night's Dream you know um that that's another interesting connection as well the whole Shakespeare thing right there's so much of this encoded language with this with these in theogens across history but go ahead register
Oh I was just gonna say yeah it goes on and on there's so much in Libre 420 it's and then like you're saying you can write a whole book just on the 19th century alone yeah so but we can see it in the grimoires or using it for scrying they're using it to see spirits which is the same in line with how Dallas Medical texts talk about it you need to see spirits and ghosts so yeah well let's think of tricks you know that's probably the foundational uh document of the western magical tradition and it's got
It right in there you know it's like cannabis residents burnt uh uh uh bring down the servant of the Moon before you in the in the smoke so it's right in there you know and that's that sort of stuff irrigation that's the same thing that's happening with Moses uh in the in the tent of the meeting and is happening in Telluride that's just a continuation of that process yeah we can see this uh quite clearly in the Greek magical propriet with the eighth book of Moses it doesn't
Mention cannabis explicitly but it talks about hot boxing incense in this ritual tent of Moses and it's very you know syncretic and paganized but those Greek magical papyri influenced both the solomonic magic and the Raziel grimoires which we also do see uh well Libra salomonas Razia is a razziel grimoire and we do see cannabis use again for a mirrors drawing again you know what I mean it's like uh um you know the the relationship between cannabis and Magic mirrors went on for centuries that's what Pascal
Beverly Randolph and uh uh uh Lewis alphonseign that's what a lot of these friendship cultures were into that's how they specifically used uh hashish was Premier Shrine you know and it's like it's staring into a black mirror until you started to see things and experience things from from staring into this black opaque mirror and drugs help that you know I think that mirror strong is actually a Avenue that modern entheogenous might apply uh uh on enthiogens in because it is a very effective tool and it goes back to agent
References as well uh I just want to point out we all basically have a black mirror in our pocket so yeah you just pull it out get stoned and go to town this is funny no no but like you're right like there's so much interesting stuff with a lot one of the things that I think a lot of modern occultists lost was that in theogenic connection it was removed or hidden and obscured behind symbolic language downright hostile to the idea you know what I mean which is a hostile you know
Neopagan Witch is hostile to the idea of antiogenic substances being used in rituals which is preposterous you know like absolutely right like these are supposed to be medicine women but also it's like we're so prudish but when you read the text like especially in regards to witches we read about things about them taking suppositories drug and theogenic suppositories in order to fly and see the devil right like it's pretty radical stuff these women are doing they're doing detera not regular psychedelics these are delirians right well uh Ammon He suggests that you know
That was part of like Aphrodite worship and age in Greece was you know fumigating the the Yoni with uh uh you know hembane and datura and all sorts of fun things including cannabis oh for sure you know and there's so much speculation when we're dealing with a lot of this stuff because you know anything that deals with the feminization especially in regards to men gets really obscured I've even read some Scholars that argue that some of the Norse magic because it's there's so much shame and it's related to cross-dressing that there's probably a suppository involved there you know
Because you know we're a priest Priestess has to put the man in a submissive sexual position in order for them to have the religious experience and that would wouldn't be surprising I don't think well you know in the end these things are secret rights you know what I mean so it's not like a lot of this stuff was explicitly written about you know magic revealed is Magic lost you know uh um and that's something that all shamans kind of kind of try to keep their bag of tricks kind of hidden you
Know uh uh um so that's not that's not an uncommon feature of a lot of this stuff that the obscurification the purposeful option of it then there's the fact that most of what we know about the Norse the Celts comes from Christian sources who aren't purposely misleading people or you know just don't understand so yeah yeah we see a similar thing we say with the hash machines and uh assassins the Marco Polo references these are like uh demonized references to to the use of these types of things
But they may at the same time unveil uh uh behind them uh some sort of history about their use as well right so we're coming up to the hour mark so I just want to start winding down here so does any uh Dion or wretched either of you guys have last questions for Chris
Real quick kudos for your your new book um if you remove cannabis from it it's just it's a history it just on a historical level the research on its own can stand alone yeah I tried to stick with you know up with the current uh historical views from Biblical Scholars and stuff like that about The Originals the the ideas of polytheism and ashrath none of that's like radically mine it's just that you know kind of what's what people know now yeah to really I mean to reiterate Chris Chris has read all the scholarship basically and to my mind he
He probably knows more about the history of cannabis than anybody alive on the planet or even in the past because he has Global awareness so definitely uh want to encourage people to check out his books uh I I would like you to uh talk about uh Ezra a little bit more and how he wrote the Bible after the Captivity because even you know whatever you want to say about Moses or is real well we got these interesting stories about Ezra here well you know like Moses you know like when
God first appears to Moses he appears within a burning bush and Ezra likewise is described as first hearing the voice of God from a bush you know what I mean so there's a connection there that ties him back to Moses and uh um then he's commanded to drink this fiery cup you know and he drinks it uh um and then he has given the wisdom to put the books in the right order and include what should be included and all that type of stuff according to the to the account you know
Um and what's interesting there is as there was a scribe of uh of the Persians and we know from zoraster and X like the the book of ardu Vera for the account of uh vishtaspa that that it was a practice for the Elite Sin in the zoroastrian tradition uh when there was trouble in the in the land or something going on in the Kingdom to seek wisdom from uh Beyond and this was done by drinking uh seven golden cups infused with man or bong the descriptions are and this is thought to be a word related to cannabis
To the Indian term bhanga as well uh infused in wine and then he would lie down as if dead and you know it's important remember that uh cannabis infused wine is in fact the first anesthetic that we know I was written in the Chinese period of the first century the guy was doing operations using cannabis infused wine so it knocked them out and then they would wake up and they'd say what they'd seen in relation to uh what they've been sent to find out um and uh you know that's kind of like
It's also you know Mercy Elliott suggests that such events that's where the belief belief in the soul originated was when people would have some sort of in the zoroastrian account you you leave the body well what's leaving the body you know what I mean it's like so there's something that could leave and have this whole other experience well your body we saw your body was right there you weren't over at the cinema Bridge you were right you know but no I was and I saw this uh so this is is something that contributed as well as dreaming uh to the idea of a soul could
Leave the body and continue on its existence um and so uh it's pretty clearly used a an infused wine in the zoraster and tradition and a number of Scholars a century apart George Washington Brown and uh uh um uh what's his name Brazilian researcher
Oh man I've I've forgotten the guy's name offhand here uh uh it doesn't matter but uh another Brazilian researcher biblical scholar both suggested that this was a cannabis infusion and this is the basis of it and used the same sort of zoroastrian connection uh Vicente de braca that's the Brazilian research researcher that oh yeah and his his papers on Ezra are really great to read as is uh George Washington Brown's account which I've I've reprinted in there I've I've got some excerpts from dubrocca but I would
Recommend for people interested in that uh to read that paper uh that that dubrocker himself wrote uh because it goes into much more detail in it and it fits with with the idea that monotheism can be of the Persians as well yeah I mean from my own research it's it's pretty easy to see that this art of araf text is the zoroastrian equivalent
To the apocalyptic literature and to uh even merkabot Traditions there must be some kind of influence going on there specifically is like thought to influence a book of Revelation there was the Oracle of histosophies which is the Greek version of the vishtaspa and vistasma was a king who was said to be zoroastrian's first uh convert uh vistaspa had a vision of the end of the world it became prohibited literature because it predicted the downfall of Rome you know that's what the Book of Revelation does too right babylon's Rome
Babylon has been long gone but because they saw what happened with the Oracle of high stasmus they knew they sure didn't want to say Roman you know kind of get it destroyed pretty quick and draw the heat on you pretty quick uh um but uh there's definitely some sort of relationship there you know and uh you know just as Ezekiel before his great vision he's giving this girl he eats it tastes as sweet as honey he turns bitter his stomach and he begins to have his
Vision same thing with John in Revelations giving this girl the exact repeat of the Ezekiel account either they work that in there as a direct copy or it's describing a technique of ecstasy that was repeated up to that time you know yeah there's no shortage of text of Mystics having out-of-body experiences or visions especially after eating some magic plant or thing potion or some such thing so you know I think that you know when you really understand
Uh the role of antheogens in the formation of of of the world's religions uh that it's as much a threat to fundamental religion as Darwin's theory of evolution was the myth of Adam and Eve in Genesis because what it shows is the plant-based antheogenic shamanic
Origins of religion itself and that's something that these abrahamic religions have rallied against uh since their Inception in fossilization into their concrete forms as books that's so well said thank you for saying that honestly because yeah I couldn't agree more you know and just to expand on that you know the removal of infusions allowed them to reduce the imagination it allowed us to be disconnected from our dreams and from our bodies it allowed us to believe in nothing but the dark you know like if you look at a lot of this especially the more extreme versions of Christianity or
Any of the abrahamic religions they it's you know they it's they reduce you to almost a slave mentality and they remove any Joy from your life you know they disconnect you from the world fundamentally from the nature and that is at the heart of everything we're facing we have no connection to the mother you know to our planet Earth right yeah well this is they fear the return of it you know what I mean in a lot of ways uh lady Babylon uh holding up or a cup of abomination is that agent goddess
Ishtar holding up her antheogenic sacraments and stuff like that and the fear is the fall of the patriarchy if we return to these sorts of things well well you know what that's what we're trying to do here right and you know if the civilian oracles are right then you know those polls are going to be flipped again and there's going to be that child to come that Crowley talks about you know we just need to get through this next apocalypse right there we go but thank you so much Chris this has
Been a incredibly wonderful discussion you know I mean we could talk to you for just hours and hours but I just also want to end yeah I would love to have you back you know maybe we can get you in with Dr Ammon as well that would be a lot of fun but like I just also want to emphasize like part of the reason why your books I find are so profound is because you're approaching this subject from sort of three perspectives on one hand it's
Extraordinarily academic you go through your book cannabis you're citing every pair every couple sentences there's another citation you can't refute it and on top of that you're approaching it as a psychonaut yourself someone who lives this life who's fought for for people's rights and who sold it the whole nine and then you're also operating from a spiritual practitioner as well so you have the three perspectives that you know a lot of people are missing one or the other right you're giving a very non-biased organic book here that tells
You about the entire history of of the ancient religion and how we've wound up where we are you know and we'll just show everyone again here the m Amazon page you know the first book there is cannabis in the Soma solution but the second book here this is the one we've been talking about today cannabis the Lost sacrament of the ancient worlds just had a re-release and the hard cover is coming out on 420 so that's pretty Epic so everyone please go and support Chris if you also look in the links below
There's a link to his cannabis culture blog which you've been doing for like 10 years plus now that's where I first found you was just searching random religious stuff online and then you're writing about Soma no one else was really doing that back in the day so anyone else have any last words for Chris Before We Say Goodbye I brought a friend absolutely lemon share enchilada
In honor yeah well I think that's good for today uh I just want to also yeah encourage everybody to check out Chris's books because even if you have no interest in cannabis you need to read this to understand the history of Judaism as far as I'm concerned you cannot otherwise right so that's all the Rad's pivotal I think in understanding what took place and it's an important thing it's a shame that when that news came out uh was right in the midst of covet and Trump
Tweeting every 20 20 minutes um and kind of got lost in the shuffle and I I think it would have had a bigger impact on a quieter news day yeah that's except there's a lot of people who want to sweep it under the rug no doubt but uh this is why we gotta spread the word right and you're doing just that so thanks again Chris for all of your research your writing and your activism it means a lot to us and you are helping to change the world so everyone please Go out and buy Chris's books and we'll see you again soon so peace love and hail Satan take care everyone bye bye